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Post a Comment On: Ken Shirriff's blog

"Glowing mercury thyratrons: inside a 1940s Teletype switching power supply"

17 Comments -

1 – 17 of 17
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love reading about this old tech. Thanks for the detailed post. Curious that they were worried about efficiency with tubes!

September 7, 2018 at 11:09 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

For a vacuum tube linear regulated supply that can do this voltage range and current (114-170v @.9A), it would have to start out with the max voltage out (170v). Not only that but the pass (regulating) tube needs at least 100v more to operate. So it would have to supply about 400vdc, up to the max .9A at any given time. At the max output voltage (most efficient) the pass tube would knock 400vdc down to 170v, at the minimum output voltage (least efficient) it would have to take it down to 114v. That means dissipating anywhere from 230 to 286 volts at up to .9A (so 207 to 257 watts) at maximum load. Not to mention that would be several pass tubes, with as much as 100w filament power. That's about 500w in and about 100-150w out. Still much less efficient than this thyratron design.

September 7, 2018 at 1:29 PM

Blogger Richard said...


In particular.

We are very sad about the fire that occurred in the national museum - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil.

So I really admire the work you do, just show off a 40's technology.

It fills us with pride.

Thank you.

September 7, 2018 at 7:41 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, that's an interesting piece of equipment! I always thought such a thing were possible with tube technology, but I never could find an example of one existing. Here it is, and it works even better than expected.

Keep finding this awesome old gear, it's really interesting to see how far we've come and what engineers managed to create without technology we take for granted nowadays.

September 7, 2018 at 9:23 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

What a thoroughly enjoyable article!I spent twenty years in the technical end of the entertainment industry traveling the country repairing electronic (SCR) dimmer systems.For what it's worth, I'm probably one of the few remaining people who repaired THYRATRON dimmer systems that were still in operation.They were exactly as you describe.There were three enormous autotransformers(one for each phase)that boosted the incoming main power line to 140 volts.The timer was a little clock motor unit.It slammed on a big 3 pole main contactor(think 400 amp/pole) after about 60sec.The tubes were rated to carry 2kw and 4kw at 120v and unlike your DC supply,t they were connected inverse parallel to pass AC to the stage lamps.What fun!

September 8, 2018 at 5:07 AM

Blogger WA3FRP said...

It’s a Teletype Model 33 ASR! That’s what Teletype Corporation called it.

September 8, 2018 at 1:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Many Monarch 10EE lathes used their thyratron power supplies well into the 1980s and even later though most have finally been changed to the solid state types. It was fun to watch them work.

The Model 33 teletyoe is an ASCII machine and was used with "modern" computer systems as well as tty links into the early 80s. These older machines were Baudot which is still used by RTTY ham operators (occasionally) and TTY/TDD networks.

September 8, 2018 at 5:10 PM

Blogger Cole Johnson said...

So... will you be opening a cheap counterfeit teletype power supply in your next post?

September 9, 2018 at 7:20 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

So the typing unit and keyboard do not need that beast of a power supply. Just regular 120VAC from the wall will do.

I reactivated one with just a few components and a raspi: http://www.sudobob.com/teletype-pi/

September 10, 2018 at 10:17 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

Any spice code and models?

September 11, 2018 at 12:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great article, as usual. Special thanks for the pointer to the BuShips Electron reference! Huge amount of fascinating (for me, anyway) documentation from that same era.

September 18, 2018 at 8:45 PM

Anonymous Dennis - K1LGQ said...

Dennis Marandos - K1LGQ … I had all the Teletype gear anyone could ask for and it was a joy to hear the clickity-clack of the pallet punching out a message. I had two Model 15s, Model 19, Model 15 reperf, Model 15 TD (distributer), a new Model 33 and more. I never did have the mercury-vapor rectifiers, too dangerous. With the advent of solid state and firm wear, I GAVE AWAY everything I owned for I could see the writing on the wall--mechanical RTTY was dying. Sorry to say, I wish I could turn back the hands of time, however, I still have my Teletype 19 manual! TNX for the refresher. Dennis - K1LGQ (K1LGQ@ARRL.NET)

September 19, 2018 at 7:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Dennis! I was a NARC member long ago--congrats on
how well the club seems to be doing! I was one of the
very last ASR-33 'technicians' in the area and for
years kept a few of them running for a tech school
that used them for training on primitive CNC machines.

I sold or took to the dump all my machines--good riddance.

I think it's a stretch to call this power supply 'switching';
I'd term it a linear supply with a PWM output regulator.
A switching supply also uses PWM regulation--but applied
to a high-frequency dc 'chopper'--which is the essence of
the design, because it permits a very small transformer.
That's all they have in common. 73 Dave W1DAY

September 23, 2018 at 10:43 AM

Blogger yonnie said...

50 years ago, I used to repair the radar on our ship (navy). I forget the designation of the thing at the moment it was something like a an-sps-10? designed in the late 1940's and used mostly for ship navigation. Had a range of close to 100 miles. Anyway, the high-voltage section used a thyratron and then those got replaced with a solid-state gizmo built into a tube socket. To upgrade it was just a matter of unplugging the thyratron and plugging in the new upgrade. The upgrade didn't have that cool looking blue-glow. Biggest problem with this high-voltage section (~10kv) was it didn't like high-humidity, the insulators would short right out. Dumb to design a critical piece of hardware for the navy that couldn't stand a little damp weather. To stay running, it required air-conditioning.

September 25, 2018 at 9:15 AM

Blogger Johannes Thelen said...

Very interesting article! I have seen these thyratrons also in old DC motor drives, here's one example, Phillips Motronics from 60s: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_DR111cK6W-SmNPcGNBdDU1SHM

This lathe is still in use, just amazing!

October 23, 2018 at 11:22 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

For some strange reason the link you have for the PDF datasheet on the Switching elements 323 thyratron tubes is blank (Zero Bytes) (Page: https://www.righto.com/2018/09/glowing-mercury-thyratrons-inside-1940s.html link from your table is: https://www.westernelectric.com/static/library/specifications/tubes/354A.pdf ). Sometime in the last 2 years that link has rotted.

As a regular reader of your blog I quickly tracked down a GOOD Copy of this obscure old data sheet. Please substitute this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20170308080304/https://www.westernelectric.com/static/library/specifications/tubes/354A.pdf in your table ... the last two pages of this datasheet contain the Specs for 354A Thyratron.

I got to this article from a link in your latest power supply teardown article published today on your RSS Feed.

"Software Santa" [.com]

May 23, 2021 at 2:52 PM

Blogger Moo4Boy said...

All the links to the notes don't work

August 28, 2022 at 9:12 AM

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