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"Silicon reverse engineering: The 8085's undocumented flags"

7 Comments -

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Blogger Mr Z said...

Wow... I guess I had forgotten that the 8085 didn't have a "jump if greater than" instruction like most of its contemporaries. I just went and looked at a couple 8085 instruction set summaries and sure enough, unless you include the undocumented instructions that test this flag, it's not there.

Other processors I've worked with from the time offer BGE/BLT that take (V xor S) to determine whether to branch, but they don't bother to store that as a discrete bit in the flags register. At least, the 6502, CP-1610 and 8086 take that approach.

February 13, 2013 at 5:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

if there're registers 0-8, isn't that 9 registers I think you miscounted somewhere.

February 17, 2013 at 10:12 AM

Blogger Ken Shirriff said...

Thanks, Anonymous; I've corrected that.

February 17, 2013 at 12:23 PM

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June 13, 2013 at 11:04 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Very interesting information. I've heard that 8085 "undocumented" instructions and flags were not documented intentionally. These instructions didn't have matching instructions in the upcoming 8086 processor, which was supposed to be backward compatible with 8080 (and 8085). So if users were to use these instructions it would complicate porting programs to 8086.

It would be interesting to see similar information about 8086/88, and particularly if there are any differences between various 8086/8088/80C88 steppings or manufacturers.

August 30, 2015 at 1:12 PM

Blogger Toivo Henningsson said...

Does anyone know why the pullup transistors are so big? I know that they need to have a big L/W ratio compared to the pulldown to give a good voltage transfer curve. (Though the NOR gate seems to have W_pulldown/L_pulldown/(W_pullup/L_pullup) = approx 6.5 which is a bit higher than the factor 4 derived in Mead & Conway - I wonder why?)

But what strikes me even more in this case is that all the pullups seem to have a width that is more than twice the minimum gate length, and they take up a lot of space on the die. Couldn't they have shrunk the pullups by a factor of 2 or at least 1.5 in both length and width, and saved a lot of space on the die?

I wonder if the pullups are actually using the minimum gate width, just that that is much bigger than the minimum gate length? They're not much wider than the pulldowns at least.

Or if it has something to do with that the pullups seem to be using buried contacts to connect the poly to the diffusion, where the buried contact is touching the pullup itself? Many other chips (6502, Z80 at least) seem to prefer to have the buried contact a little distance away, to improve manufacturing tolerances perhaps?

January 21, 2021 at 10:22 PM

Blogger SNG said...

Excellent analysis, with one typo: Sehnhardt for Dehnhardt in note [1]

August 12, 2022 at 1:13 AM

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