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"Restoring YC's Xerox Alto day 10: New boards, running programs, mouse problems"

16 Comments -

1 – 16 of 16
Anonymous Al Kossow said...


The extra 10 pin plug brings in the wakeup signals for the extra microcode tasks used
by the Trident interface. See the trident interface/cabling maint drawings for details.

October 15, 2016 at 9:07 AM

Blogger Alan Kay said...

Hi Ken

I wasn't aware that Smalltalk ever was extended on the Alto to the larger microcoded RAMs (would be interesting to see if possible). On the smaller 1024 instruction RAM we had to choose what functions we wanted to have sped up (the 3 main ones were 10 frames per second 2.5D animation and graphics, the real-time FM and sampling musical timbre synthesis, and the Smalltalk byte-code emulator). Most of the Smalltalk work in the late 70s was done on the faster larger Dorado and on the smaller a bit faster NoteTaker.

P.S. You are welcome to try the mouse at HARC in Westwood ...

Cheers

Alan

October 15, 2016 at 9:22 AM

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October 15, 2016 at 10:00 AM

Blogger Dogzilla said...

Back in the dark ages, I worked for two company that each manufactured many of the Static RAMs used to store microcode in these type of computers. I don't recall many of them using ROM, but that was a long time ago. One of the problems was that microcoded machines wanted a very shallow, wide memory system. Most of these machines used 1K x 4 and later 4k x 4 Static RAMs, with a register on the output. The designs shifted data into the wide data bus, then wrote into RAM, cycling through the entire control store.

Just as microprocessors gained enough power to kill-off these systems, mainly I think the 68000, several SRAM manufacturers came up with what was called Writeable Control Store Memories, basically wide Static RAMs (4K x 16) with built in output registers and shift registers to simplify the designs. Too late to make a difference.

I'm interested in how the Alto placed data into the control store and if an AMD 2901 bit slice was used, did they come later?

As always, I totally enjoy your writing.

Randy Lea

October 15, 2016 at 10:32 AM

Blogger Unknown said...

I've been following this series for a while. Very interesting!

I worked with Sun workstations at a job in the 1990s. They used optical mice too, with special mouse pads. The pad was reflective (like a mirror) with light blue horizontal and vertical bars on it, about 10 or 15 per inch I would say. There was something "magic" with the mouse pad: If you would turn the pad sideways (or turn the mouse 90 degrees), one of the sensors of the mouse (horizontal or vertical, I don't remember which) would stop working. It would definitely be impossible to make a working mouse pad for one of those mice by printing it from a picture, but perhaps if you can find a Sun workstation mousepad in the museum or on eBay or whatever, it might be compatible with your mouse.

All the best with the rest of this project. It looks like your Alto was used as a parts bin...

===Jac

October 15, 2016 at 11:02 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

My Dandetiger mouse has a DA-15 connector (complete with AUI-style slide lock) but only 9 pins are populated, so I'd guess you only need to find the right permutation.

October 15, 2016 at 11:54 AM

Blogger Josh Dersch said...

A small clarification: Only Smalltalk-80 required 3K of control RAM; Smalltalk-76 uses only 1K. The Alto IFS servers could make use of 3K of control store to speed things up.

October 15, 2016 at 12:30 PM

Blogger Carl Claunch said...

Dogzilla - The Alto always had a 1K bank of ROM which held all the permanent microcode The microinstruction format generated a 'next microinstruction' address of 12 bits with the top bits used to select which of the 1K banks was the source of that next instruction.

There was no wholesale write of all microcode at startup, because microcode was either static, in a ROM, or dynamically loaded only by certain applications at run time.

A word from the ROM or control RAM is 32 bits wide, but implemented with 1K or 4K static RAM chips each handling a slice of the entire word. The main bus of the Alto is only 16 bits wide, so that dynamically writing or reading from the microcode ram (CRAM) involved two operations/cycles.

The Alto I was designed and built a few years before AMD released the 2901. No bitslice, it was all discrete ICs.

October 15, 2016 at 1:14 PM

Blogger Thomas Novotny said...

I just would like to say that I'm following every single update, thanks for sharing this exciting project! It's absolutely mindblowing how way ahead of its time the Alto was and I can't wait for you to get it up and running again!

October 15, 2016 at 4:12 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The screenshots look pixelated because of interlacing: in PrePress, the "Grow" button looks like "Crow".

If you can control the exposure time of the camera, you could set it to a multiple of the frame period.

October 15, 2016 at 8:28 PM

Blogger Dillon said...


Steve at bigmessowires.com is creating more DB-19 connectors if you need a source. I'm sure this is the kind of project that he'd love to assist.
http://www.bigmessowires.com/2016/06/04/db-19-resurrecting-an-obsolete-connector/

October 18, 2016 at 8:55 AM

Blogger Carl Claunch said...

Dillon - we need the double density DE-19 - it has the small shell same as what is commonly called a DB9 connector, but has three rows of pins. A DB-19 won't fit - it is the wider B sized shell and only two rows.

October 18, 2016 at 10:31 AM

Blogger Chris-Mouse said...

If you're still looking for those DE-19 connectors, you might want to ask around the Apple II community. Apple used those connectors for external floppy drives on the //e and //c computers.

October 22, 2016 at 10:44 AM

Blogger Michele said...

In addition to the IR optical mouse, there was also an earlier version that used visible light from grain-o-wheat bulbs. The heat emitted made the mouse a nice hand-warmer on cold days.

In a pinch, you don't need the mouse pad at all. The optical mouse works well running over a pair of jeans. And finally, you don't need the Xerox mouse at all. The Amiga mouse uses the identical quadrature system. I have a Xerox mouse controlling my Amiga 2000 and it works fine. You just need a converter cable to the Amiga's DB-9 mouse port. (Admittedly you still need one of those weird connectors).

May 8, 2017 at 9:16 AM

Blogger Martin Haeberli said...

Ken,
(Having been involved in the design of the Optical Mouse.)
I also have some experience; I haven't noted whether you got the thing running, but I can probably advise.
Just reach out.
Best,
Martin

October 14, 2019 at 1:56 AM

Blogger WildcatMatt said...

After reading the comment above about using an Amiga mouse, it occurred to me that the screenshot of Neptune is quite similar to DiskMaster on the Amiga which I believe was inspired by Norton Commander.

That in turn has me wondering: Could Neptune be considered the (grand)father of all Orthodox File Managers?

January 16, 2021 at 12:24 PM

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