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Post a Comment On: Ken Shirriff's blog

"Xerox Alto's 3 Mb/s Ethernet: Building a gateway with a BeagleBone"

8 Comments -

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Blogger MiaM said...

Good work!

It would be nice if someone could jog our memories and fill in what differs, besides speed, between Alto 3Mbps and the first 10Mbps ethernet.

The vampires seems to be the same as for 10base5 "thich" 10Mbps ethernet. Afaik you can replace just the mechanical vampire part of a transciever with a BNC connector and use it with 10base2 "thin" 10Mbps ethernet (using the classic 50 ohm RG58 coax cables).

If would be really cool if the difference is so small that you could replace the crystal on a standard ethernet card and rewrite the driver. That would probably require a card that can be fooled to work with theese probably different headers.

January 9, 2018 at 1:40 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Yes! Now all I have to do is find a spare Xerox Alto, build an Ethernet bridge, and port Crysis to it for instant fame!

Thanks for this article, the original Alto restoration felt like a only week ago, now your little Alto has grown up and can network boot among other things. You had talked about the bridge before, and it was talked about in Marc's videos, so I wondered when you would explain it. Which you did, this is a great example of the process of building an interface between modern and vintage/retro hardware. Its weird to think that the BeagleBone there has more computing power than the Alto, or even larger computers from the time.

I had a question a few months back about the Ethernet that I figured out now. The original Ethernet was designed to connect a "pool" of computers in Xerox's facilities, which is why they went with the dreaded vampire tap solution. Glad I have thin-wires and easy-insertion sockets on modern Ethernet, or better yet, Wifi!!

January 9, 2018 at 2:25 PM

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January 10, 2018 at 10:51 AM

Blogger Benjamin308 said...

Excellent work as always!

January 10, 2018 at 2:27 PM

Blogger WestfW said...

>> what differs between 3Mbps and the first 10Mbps ethernet.
3MB Ethernet had 8bit source and destination addresses, I think a 16bit CRC and a different preamble length. There was a hint that Intel's first ethernet controller (i82586) was configurable enough to implement 3MB Enet, but I don't think anyone tried very hard to actually make it work. By that time, 3MB was clearly "legacy", and the interfaces that existed (Stanford/Xerox/cisco Multibus, Unibus, and Massbus) were "enough" for the small groups that required them.

As another reference for PUP implementation, I think you should be able to find the Stanford TOPS20 source code (in PDP10 assembler) online. (if not, I could upload it.) Stanford was using PUP for remote terminal access well into the mid-1980s.

January 22, 2018 at 11:35 PM

Blogger Olof Kindgren said...

They had a lot of problems with the vampire taps in the early days of Ethernet. The taps left holes that were just large enough for dissatisfied electrons to escape. Before that, the electrons often escaped through the wire ends, which is why Xerox decided to put in terminators there to shoot any electrons foolish enough to escape that way.

This was all resolved eventually with Ethernet Jumbo frames, which use larger electrons

January 23, 2018 at 1:21 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

That brings back memories. I wrote the Leaf server code for Stanford’s Tenex and Tops-20 systems in the early 80’s (and a PDP-11 boot server for the Alto in the Sumer-AIM machine room). Pre-NFS, but we could share text files and boot the Dolphin Lisp machines from saved Interlisp-D sysout images.

February 1, 2018 at 4:55 PM

Blogger Unknown said...

Wow, you gateway is making want to acquire acquire an Alto. Owning an Alto would motivate me to attempt create a posix C version of Alto network stack. I would use the Linux ax.25 stack as a reference.

The terminating resistors are to stop the electrons from escaping. When there are no terminator the electrons reflect back in to the coax. Electrons like conductors more then they like air. The terminators are needed to stop the reflections. The resistors let the electrons escape as heat.

February 23, 2018 at 3:12 PM

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