Good stuff. There was just a thing on NPR this weekend about how it is so much easier to spew hatred and bile on the internet than anything worthwhile or uplifting. Too much effort I guess.
Full disclosure: up until about 4 years ago, I would have happily jumped on any one of those opinions, screaming, "Yeah, it sucks!" Then I got involved in Google+ and the OSR community, and it was like seeing things in a whole new light. Not just that I didn't have to hate any edition of D&D I wasn't playing, but that you don't have to hate *anything.* Something not your style? Just keep on moving, looking for the love.
My father used to say "there's a seat for every ass," and it took me 40 years to really understand that. Someone out there really, really loves a game you don't particularly care for, just like someone out there really loves a guy or girl who may not be your speed. You wouldn't bash the guy or girl (particularly to their face), and you shouldn't bash the game.
That was sort of entertaining. It helps my hope for humanity a tiny bit that a few of them were actually somewhat nuanced, like the Rifts one. I wish I could say I was surprised, though, that the most unhinged-sounding one by far was the LotFP one.
(Other than maybe that bizarre AD&D one, which I agree is probably a parody of other people's criticisms of it than something meant to be taken at face value.)
I think it's ok to say you hate a game to someone's face. A game _isn't_ a person with feelings--and a person who identifies so much with a game they can't handle someone saying they hate it needs therapy.
I think, however, that when you say it, you should be wholly honest and wholly rational and wholly-open to questions about why that game doesn't intersect with your interests. The person hating isn't allowed to flip their lid either.
That's how we learn--by meeting people who disagree with the assumptions we came to the table with and _discovering new things_ about how people think and identify.
LotFP people are as often wrong as anyone else, but for some reason LotFP-haters are a bizarre breed of over-the-line self-sabotaging psychopath I've never encountered anywhere else.
It may be because the LotFP itself is so obscure that hating it requires levels of internerd obsessiveness that all-but guarantees a reality-disconnect. Like: angry and savvy enough to know what LotFP is, but still dumb enough to realize they only improve sales by complaining about it.
Or, y'know, people who hate on boobs are just extra-crazy. Which we all already knew.
"I hate Pendragon because although it's fantasy but it still uses a map of Britain, implying it's history."
This was the point I felt a perverse sense of joy, an almost religious epiphany, a sense that Hey, I might not be smart (and for some reason I really worry about how stupid I am), but I never wrote that...
(and then as the religous fervour dissapated like so much smoke)
The sad thing is that both Gleichmann and Shreyas Sampat (an actual storygamer with actual game credits) have said essentially that and the whole internet did not come to a screeching halt and go "Holy fuck, you need to not be on the internet any more, you are insane"
At least with Gleichman, nobody really listens to him. Shreyas still gets treated like he might have meaningful things to say
What struck and confused me about the LotFP comment was the start: "But I hate LOTFP and OSR." It gives the impression that the two are synonymous. And then they have a staff. And promote child pornography. On "their site", whichever that site is.
But we ARE a world wide conspiracy, aren't we? I just assumed we are and my invitation to meeting and such had all gotten lost in the mail, but now I'm disappointed...
Elves are anemic and weak. Their opinion on anything is jaded by a general millennial malaise. However, I do have it on good authority that said condition can be alleviated through a week long Manowar marathon and copious amounts of cocaine.
I hate that people get so ridiculously passionate in their hate of certain games. Imagine if that energy were directed to something constructive, like social justice, or environmental clean-up, or whatever relevant cause one cares to support.
There are games I can't be bothered to play, for various reasons. If invited, I'll just say, "sorry, it's not for me."
The world is a more pleasant place when you seek to understand what others like about something instead of seeking something about it for you to dislike.
Fun example...I like the Bing vs Google contrast that this creates; for example I hate Numenera in Bing gets gets:
If so, why are you bringing it up in the Numenera thread? Start another thread for whatever you want to say about EotE. My ... and I hate it in Numenera.
Also, placing the search term in quotes to forces exact phrase ["I hate Numenera" vs I hate Numenera], may have some value....
Hey Zak! Hey! Hey Zak! I hate Vornheim. I hate that I bought the PDF and not the dead tree edition and now they're RARER THAN HEN'S TEETH! Goddamnit. I can't even find the PDF now. *sobs*
I just googled "I hate (name of game here)" and put the first result that came up.
I told him that I hated 13th Age, but he claimed that it has gotten much better with the second iteration of the playtest and sent me the doc. I opened it and went right to the "Blur spell, and sure enough it's still a percentage miss chance. Once again, I immediately deleted the doc, wrote the game off as an utter piece of garbage and told my former friend to lose my contact info, before deleting him from my facebook friend's list.
I hate D&Ds combat system. Hey guys. So I've got a problem. I hate the combat system of D&D, and my players do as well. I feel like it is just slow and boring. We are having a great time role playing and doing story stuff, which is awesome. Then for whatever reason we need to switch over to a combat encounter, which almost feels like a different game. "i hate world of darkness and i hate everyone who likes world of darkness and you have to work your fucking ASS off to prove you’re an exception to me" I especially hate how proudly the fandom and devs both run right back into the arms of racist shit they already “apologozed” (sic) for instead of trying to actually move past it. I hate Rifts quite a bit, but Wormwood is a fantastic supplement that I've transferred over to both a Dark Sun and an Apocolypse (sic) World game. Now, I hate Shadowrun with a passion, so can someone please explain the appeal? If you like the Cyberpunk Genre, you would play Cyberpunk and stay true to it, if you want to be a combat twink you would play Shadowrun? Please, I don't understand. [Disclaimer: Yes I really am sorta trying to start a flamewar. But the question is legitimate, my entire gaming group is confused by the appeal of Shadowrun. On that note. FIGHT!]
Not because I have a grudge, but because I already have an edition that's awesome. If I hate 5e, my decision will be that much easier! Why should anyone have reason vote for what is nothing more than an extended joke to make money deserve an award. I hate Hackmaster. Best RPG of 2001? You have to be F*CKING kidding --get a grip. Best RPG of 2001? Somebody rationalise that. Go on. I dare you. You cannot. There is no way that you can. Hackmaster and its eight Monster sodding Manuals? That's called a rip off. By the way... I should not type this. I am drunk. I hate 3.5 wildshape. I hate Marvel Heroic, but the Doom Pool mechanic was interesting enough in concept I'd like to see it revisited somewhere else. To be perfectly honest, I hate Star Wars. I think the movies [are bad] and are completely uninteresting. But this book is a different story altogether. It brings to life what the movies can't. The writing is superb. Highly Recommended!! (Review of WOTC's Star Wars Heroes' Guide, 2003)
Yeah, I hate retroclones too, such shitty copies of REAL D&D.
(I think this one was sarcastic)
I Hate Feng ShuiNo, I actually don't. But I need advice. I am part of an incredibly small gaming group (three total players including myself). One guy loves investigations, mysteries, and character interaction, while the other pretty much just likes to kill things. I'm somewhere in the middle, I guess. I like Ken Hite's work (I bought Trail even though I hate Gumshoe).
Basically I'm just taking the Tager concept and making a nWoD fansplat out of it because I fucking loved them (what >>35716959 said) but I hate CthulhuTech's clunky bullshit system that rips off the worst parts of oWoD and Exalted. Then adds DICE POKER.
Actually, I hate 4E because, flat out, it doesn't allow me to build the characters I want. I hate Dungeon World's lack of clarity, and well not being able to roll dice as a GM makes me feel useless. I hate Gamma World. I like postapocalyptic, but GW is postapocalyptic the way Tomb of Horrors is medieval fantasy. A friend and I actually had Jim Ward run a game of Gamma World for us at a con and it sucked and I refuse to say any more about it. For the record, I don't hate C&C. I have never said that I hate C&C. What I do dislike, rather strongly, is the One True Wayism of a lot of C&C players (who have accused me of OTWism, but it's simply not true; I acknowledge my preferences as preferences, not laws of nature). I think it's an interesting game, fun in its own way, useful for certain purposes. Those purposes, to me, do not include campaign play. i hate champions: im sorry i just dont like this kind of rpg anyone recommend a good one for about 30 bucks???
(sic)
So, I hate Rolemaster but I love MERP. I hate MERP with a fiery passion. It's the system that ensured that my wife never wants to be involved in any RPGs ever again, after being forced through character gen for the first time ever by some friends, who thought it was the ultimate RPG. Since I hadn't played it myself, I wasn't able to warn them that it was far too complex for someone as maths-phobic as she is.
[Image]
This is why I hate Eclipse Phase. I hate Apocalypse World, because it's ruined all other Roleplaying (sic) games for me. Why i Hate Warhammer: FantasyBecause I want all the armies. I love my High Elves and Ogres, but I also want Skaven, Orcs and Goblins, Dwarfs, Tomb Kings, Wood Elves, Chaos (both Daemons and Warriors), Lizardmen, and Vampire Counts. I could play any of those armies quite happily. The reason I hate WFRP 3 is that they killed something great for something mediocre. Which is exactly why I hate Call of Cthulhu.Sanity.Should not.Be.A statistic. I Hate FATEWell, not FATE per se. It’s a handy enough little minimalist game system. But I hate all the FATE fanboys. Why I hate Warhammer Fans. I think it should be obvious by now that while I really like Warhammer 40,000, I can't stand the fans. Too bad I hate Dark Heresy's (and the other 40k FFG RPGs) mechanics. So yeah in short: I hate Pathfinder. While I'm here and since I'm a notoriously bad roller: I hate Traveller. Just let me play my character concept. I hate Burning Wheel, but this is a really cool idea. Never thought of it like this before. No results found for "i hate vornheim". And when it's time to spend karma on rolls, I hate FASERIP. I hate AD&D and let me tell you why. 9 out of 10 HANDPICKED idiots who suggested reasons for this or that aren't as good as I am at finding fault with the HANDPICKED reasons - though I won't dare touch the good suggestions, or offer exhaustive counter POVs for the majority of justifications given for the rules. Get Real.
(I think this was sarcastic, hard to tell.)
I hate Dogs in the Vineyard and Wushu. Hate. Them. If I could give them voices, light them on fire and listen to them scream as they burned, it would give me pleasure. Power-Driving in Roleplaying Campaigns (or why I hate Exalted even more). I hate Pendragon because although it's fantasy but it still uses a map of Britain, implying it's history. You know what I hate? Marvel Super Heroes. See, there's this one guy called Mephisto who is super powerful and wants to corrupt my character from the very start. And he has all sorts of attacks and resources to pretty much do whatever he wants.
(Sarcastic again. They was trying to prove a point about Exalted, I think.)
Re: Why I hate Traveller I hate 40k because I disagree with how gw does business 11% [ 29 ]I hate 40k because the prices are outrageous 9% [ 24 ]I hate 40k because the rules are crap 11% [ 29 ]I hate 40k because all of my friends have been driven away from playing due to one of the hate options 3% I am probably one of the few people who will say this. I hate Werewolf. Savage Worlds? Darn... I hate Savage Worlds. :(Oh well, doesn't mean I don't still love you guys. Just that I won't support the RPG. And I hate Ars Magica grognards who hate 3rd edition. I was pissed that I bought it because I could not make any sense out of it at all. I even understood Wraith better than Changeling, and I hate Wraith also. I hate Blue Rose and Exalted, for what it's worth, but if they work for a certain type of audience and expand the hobby, great. I hate GURPS magic alot too. I'd recommend just using Superpowers for spells instead. Pay the price of the Superpower/Level to acquire the ... I Hate Traveller. I don't actively play the game anymore but I haven't given up on it altogether. In fact in my pursuit of becoming a science fiction author I use the Traveller rules in all its versions as a framework for sanity attempting to keep the science in science fiction. Well, I dunno if I'd say I hate Vampire. No, check that--I wouldn't. Hate's an awfully strong word, and frankly, anyone who can work themselves up to genuine hatred over a game needs some serious anger management classes, IMO. That said: I don't particularly enjoy the game, and here's why: [Missing image file: 1361376150264.jpg]This is why I hate Mutants and Masterminds.I have never meat (sic) a group not shitty enough to pull their shit together and avoid pic related.
(4chan--no idea what the picture is) After all this, I wouldn't say that I hate Numenera. I just was expecting more. There's nothing that stands out as being new or innovative, either with the setting or the system. It's not bad, there is just nothing about it that stands out at all. But I hate LOTFP and OSR. I just think that people should know that, well, THEY LET A FUCKING CHILD RAPIST ON THEIR STAFF AND ARE PUTTING REFERRAL LINKS TO SELL CARTOON CP before anyone starts patting them on the back for getting mad at something less worse than what they already did.
(I love that someone somewhere thinks LOTFP has a staff and that that is sentences.)
---
"It Was 2015. They Hated Things."
22 Comments -
Good stuff. There was just a thing on NPR this weekend about how it is so much easier to spew hatred and bile on the internet than anything worthwhile or uplifting. Too much effort I guess.
Full disclosure: up until about 4 years ago, I would have happily jumped on any one of those opinions, screaming, "Yeah, it sucks!" Then I got involved in Google+ and the OSR community, and it was like seeing things in a whole new light. Not just that I didn't have to hate any edition of D&D I wasn't playing, but that you don't have to hate *anything.* Something not your style? Just keep on moving, looking for the love.
My father used to say "there's a seat for every ass," and it took me 40 years to really understand that. Someone out there really, really loves a game you don't particularly care for, just like someone out there really loves a guy or girl who may not be your speed. You wouldn't bash the guy or girl (particularly to their face), and you shouldn't bash the game.
March 23, 2015 at 1:30 PM
Thought I should point out that the Ars Magica one is about a Minecraft mod.
March 23, 2015 at 1:32 PM
That was sort of entertaining. It helps my hope for humanity a tiny bit that a few of them were actually somewhat nuanced, like the Rifts one. I wish I could say I was surprised, though, that the most unhinged-sounding one by far was the LotFP one.
March 23, 2015 at 1:45 PM
(Other than maybe that bizarre AD&D one, which I agree is probably a parody of other people's criticisms of it than something meant to be taken at face value.)
March 23, 2015 at 1:47 PM
I think it's ok to say you hate a game to someone's face. A game _isn't_ a person with feelings--and a person who identifies so much with a game they can't handle someone saying they hate it needs therapy.
I think, however, that when you say it, you should be wholly honest and wholly rational and wholly-open to questions about why that game doesn't intersect with your interests. The person hating isn't allowed to flip their lid either.
That's how we learn--by meeting people who disagree with the assumptions we came to the table with and _discovering new things_ about how people think and identify.
March 23, 2015 at 2:00 PM
thanks--fixed
March 23, 2015 at 2:00 PM
LotFP people are as often wrong as anyone else, but for some reason LotFP-haters are a bizarre breed of over-the-line self-sabotaging psychopath I've never encountered anywhere else.
It may be because the LotFP itself is so obscure that hating it requires levels of internerd obsessiveness that all-but guarantees a reality-disconnect. Like: angry and savvy enough to know what LotFP is, but still dumb enough to realize they only improve sales by complaining about it.
Or, y'know, people who hate on boobs are just extra-crazy. Which we all already knew.
March 23, 2015 at 2:07 PM
"I hate Pendragon because although it's fantasy but it still uses a map of Britain, implying it's history."
This was the point I felt a perverse sense of joy, an almost religious epiphany, a sense that Hey, I might not be smart (and for some reason I really worry about how stupid I am), but I never wrote that...
(and then as the religous fervour dissapated like so much smoke)
...yet
March 23, 2015 at 6:07 PM
The sad thing is that both Gleichmann and Shreyas Sampat (an actual storygamer with actual game credits) have said essentially that and the whole internet did not come to a screeching halt and go "Holy fuck, you need to not be on the internet any more, you are insane"
At least with Gleichman, nobody really listens to him. Shreyas still gets treated like he might have meaningful things to say
March 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM
I didn't dig very deep, but as far as I can tell no one hates Talislanta. In the grand scheme of things that's about all that matters.
March 23, 2015 at 8:24 PM
Elves do.
March 23, 2015 at 8:26 PM
What struck and confused me about the LotFP comment was the start: "But I hate LOTFP and OSR." It gives the impression that the two are synonymous. And then they have a staff. And promote child pornography. On "their site", whichever that site is.
March 23, 2015 at 11:59 PM
But we ARE a world wide conspiracy, aren't we? I just assumed we are and my invitation to meeting and such had all gotten lost in the mail, but now I'm disappointed...
March 24, 2015 at 2:18 AM
That one made me scratch my head in disbelief too. Crazy.
March 24, 2015 at 11:02 PM
Elves are anemic and weak. Their opinion on anything is jaded by a general millennial malaise. However, I do have it on good authority that said condition can be alleviated through a week long Manowar marathon and copious amounts of cocaine.
March 25, 2015 at 7:54 AM
I hate that people get so ridiculously passionate in their hate of certain games. Imagine if that energy were directed to something constructive, like social justice, or environmental clean-up, or whatever relevant cause one cares to support.
There are games I can't be bothered to play, for various reasons. If invited, I'll just say, "sorry, it's not for me."
March 25, 2015 at 4:29 PM
The world is a more pleasant place when you seek to understand what others like about something instead of seeking something about it for you to dislike.
March 26, 2015 at 8:15 AM
I wish that were true, but often seeking to understand what people like about it makes them pissed off.
A thread where I talked to 4e fans about why they liked 4e was the one that made one of the worst trolls I have start attacking me
March 26, 2015 at 10:32 AM
Alien anthropologists will be perplexed to find a purportedly sentient species capable of feeling hatred towards a game.
The last quote is priceless, though.
Also,Haha I think probably saying "I like this magick school but I hate Unknown Armies" is more of an insult than a compliment.
March 27, 2015 at 4:17 PM
Fun example...I like the Bing vs Google contrast that this creates; for example I hate Numenera in Bing gets gets:
If so, why are you bringing it up in the Numenera
thread? Start another thread for whatever you want to
say about EotE. My ... and I hate it in Numenera.
Also, placing the search term in quotes to forces exact phrase ["I hate Numenera" vs I hate Numenera], may have some value....
April 6, 2015 at 5:57 AM
Hey Zak! Hey! Hey Zak!
I hate Vornheim. I hate that I bought the PDF and not the dead tree edition and now they're RARER THAN HEN'S TEETH!
Goddamnit. I can't even find the PDF now. *sobs*
April 15, 2015 at 7:37 AM
Just to make sure. You do know I'm joking right?
April 15, 2015 at 7:38 AM