Aiming a bit higher than last post, though maybe that's not an improvement. Here goes: Goblin Wind - Level 4 Comparing it to large illusions like Massmorph, Hallucinatory Terrain,etc, affecting many brains at once. Reverse would be the Bonobo Breeze - all in sight save or get busy with nearest living thing ;) Inverted Hour - This seems on par with Limited Wish, so Level 7 minimum. Battle Oracle - Sounds clerical, a bit stronger than Commune, so Level 6 One Thousand Hogs - Level 7 That's a lot of pork, so it must be more potent than Stone to Flesh. Mockery of Faith - Level 2 To me, seems less powerful than Animate Dead and other 3rd level cleric spells. Thask's Compulsive Repetition - Level 1 (no more than Charm Person) Moebius Chamber - Like Permanent Illusion so Level 6 Ghastly Image - Depends how far back we go... today's kills or those of the past few years? Seems at least equal to Confusion, so Level 4 Ridley's Transformation - Duration permanent? Guessing Level 3 Mothrok's Unusual Repast - Weaker than Regenerate, so Level 6 Truelie - Level 5 Altering reality but only a little and briefly. God's Eye - Short duration but powerful agent. Level 4 Divine Lacuna - Level 7 minimum. A cleric affecting a god seems too powerful to me. Unwanted Want - Level 3 Potent charm but probably short-lived. Warmask - Level 6 (Like Tenser's Transformation) Wizard Husk - Hrm, does it affect AC? Better than Barkskin, so maybe Level 3 Xamot's Reflecting Aura - Level 3 (similar power to Dispel Magic) Eye of the Gallows God - Level 4 at least (forcible extraction of sensitive info) Mark of Ignorance - Level 2 (Comparable to a twist on Locate Object)
I think we want to look at it more in terms of usefulness than "how much magic is getting used here" like One Thousand Hogs may require "a lot" of magic for its effect but it isn't usually as useful as Stone-to-Flesh whereas Truelie is almost Wish if rigged carefully.
The problem with assigning spell levels is that even the "official" spells are all over the place, really. Used cleverly, Charm Person is way more useful than a lot of higher level spells. So I go at least partly by how much effort it takes to make the spell useful - instant gratification for high level spells, convoluted set-ups for low level spells.
Goblin Wind - 7th due to range and area of effect as it can affect a battlefield with thousands of combatants.
Inverted Hour - 9th level , it is more of a weirdly worded wish spell effect.
Battle Oracle - 4th level it seems a better combination of divination and augury
One Thousand Hogs - 7th level , as it can feed an army or kill one (wild boar have very nasty combat stats , they are far worse than wolves or hobgoblins)
Mockery of Faith - Spell interrupts spell casting of any divine spell ( verbal component is blown ) sounds like a curse so 3rd or 4th
Thask's Compulsive Repetition - basically a charm spell so first level
Ghastly Image - the save mod is by default an automatic failed save, so as writ a 5th , without the save mod it is a first level spell
Ridley's Transformation - it is a version of fire shield fundamentally so 4th
Mothrok's Unusual Repast - it is a weirdly worded regeneration spell , but for a mage and with a limited class of injury so I would call it a 5th.
Truelie - A weird limited wish spell with a reduced duration so 6th
God's Eye - as it compels a God 7th
Divine Lacuna - 7th
Unwanted Want - 3rd if it affects humanoids only 5th if it affects monsters
Warmask gruesome , but not a game breaker 3rd or 4th
Wizard Husk - doubles the mages hp and stores spells, so 5th level
Xamot's Reflecting Aura - 4th level unless it requires some riddiculous component
Eye of The Gallows God - depends on the range of the spell . if touch range first level , if 30" or less (combat range) 2nd , if line of sight 4th , if range is unlimited but requires a focus item such as hair from the target 3rd, if it is range 1 plane 6th or 7th , if completely unlimited 8th.
Mark of Ignorance if the subjects trying to recall get no save 6th if they do 3rd.
For Inverted Hour : Well I can't argue that it is weaker , but the effect is a cursed version of time stop linked to a permanency spell . My take on Wish , Limited Wish and Alter Reality is they represent a mage's ability to custom craft a spell that does anything rather than actually being identical to a Djinni or Efreeti wish , and the need to simply state it reflects how well the caster narrows their focus for the spell. Husk doesn't double the HP for all purposes true , but for a mage duel it certainly does, I understood this. These have just been my opinions on the magics involved and they represent a type I game view.
@Zak:Magic in your campaign seems to not only depend less on power and more on utility, but also consider how the players react/interact with the magic and the RP value that adds. 1000 Hogs looks like serious fun and could be used in countless ways - to feed an army; to attack, distract, confuse, scatter or amuse an enemy; as a brideprice for the chieftain's daughter; to spoil the duchess' high society tea party. Obviously, 1000 Hogs wants to be used by PCs, and the higher the level, the less likely that is, so maybe Level 5 would be more logical than Level 7. Conversely, Battle Oracle sounds like an NPC spell cast by the Three Wyrd Sisters, so keeping it Level 6 is just fine.
If we deconstruct, four spell levels might suffice; 1 - for novice casters, 2 - for later, but not too late, 3 - spells PCs should get eventually but maybe only a few, 4 - stuff only encountered via scroll or NPC casters. That's where I'm at with my own game design, anyway.
@John: Yeah, "official" was never particularly well-balanced or organized :P
June 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM
Anonymous said...
I normally don't read the entirety of your longer posts in detail, but this one kept drawing me back in. I think you have done a great job in creating very "magical" spells that feel both epic and bizarre... Constantine/Books of Magic meeting Dunsany, perhaps. That kind of magic is always outlandish, weird and unbalanced, so I won't speak toward any kind of RPG balance issue, but I love these things and want to rip them off for my next game somehow.
By the way , I like the spells , my criticisms are purely the result of trying to place them into my games framework ... I love hearing about your campaign , please don't stop sharing !
One Thousand Hogs is going to be a 1st Level spell found in the skull of Emma's wizard's dead twin sister's skull because I think it's hilarious.
September 10, 2014 at 9:25 PM
Same deal as last time: Let me know the lowest level you could see each spell plausibly being. I have inserted a few notes here and there when I figured I had an idea.Details:No save unless indicated.Duration is permanent or instantaneous unless otherwise indicated. Remove curse will get rid of the thing where appropriate.Goblin Wind A fell wind sweeps across the area. All in the caster's sight except the caster must save vs will/spell or attack the nearest living thing for d4 rounds. Inverted Hour Level 8 The caster kills himself or herself and is immediately reborn. Events begin to reverse themselves beginning at that moment and going backwards. The slain live and survivors die. Victors fall and the captured become captors. Beginning at the present and moving backward, the caster rolls a magic save for each creature that would be affected in order (that is: reverse order from the moment of casting). If the save is passed, the creature's fate is reversed. The process continues until the caster fails a save or until a full hour has been reversed. Other kinds of events may be inverted at the GM's discretion and in any way the GM chooses, however, the caster may attempt to choose the form of inversion of these events as well, by rolling for them as if they were creatures, however: a failed save works as if the caster had failed a save for a creature's fate and the magic stops working at that moment. Battle Oracle (this) One Thousand Hogs A thousand hogs crawl up from beneath the earth. They know no master. Mockery of Faith Level: Cleric 3 Duration: 2 days Save negates Range: 20' This spell may only be cast on a cleric, priest, shaman or other official member of an organized faith hierarchy and only on one of a faith unlike that of the casting cleric. It causes any creatures in earshot (other than the target) to laugh when the target mentions his/her/its deity. This includes mentioning the god's name during the casting of spells. Thask's Compulsive Repetition Range: 20' The caster indicates a target before the target has announced his or her next action. On a failed will/save, the target must repeat that action every round (s/he may change targets) until s/he succeeds on a save. Moebius Chamber Range: 10' Area of effect: one room up to 30' x 30' x 30' Caster designates a room: Whatever happens in that room in the next 5 rounds will continue to happen forever in an endless cycle. These actions will be enacted by temporal duplicates of any creatures in the room during the 5-minute interval after the spell's casting. Creatures duplicated by the spell are free to act in whatever manner they wish but the duplicates themselves cannot leave the room. The repeating action in the room may be interfered with via physical action or magic, but all will be returned to the starting condition every 5 rounds. Objects removed from the room during the initial 5 rounds will be duplicated in the room, but the duplicated objects, like the duplicated beings, cannot leave the room. Ghastly Image Target briefly sees an apparition of every being s/he has slain. The target is stunned until s/he makes a successful save. The save is made at a minus equal to the number of digits in the total tally of the target's kills. Ridley's Transformation Range: Touch Target's blood becomes acidic when exposed to air. The target is immune to the acid. Assume edged damage causes a wound. Attackers and creatures' within 5' when the creature is attacked must make a reflex save or other get-out-of-the-way save or be splashed for an amount of damage equal to the wound inflicted. Lasts d10 rounds. Mothrok's Unusual Repast Duration: 4 rounds Upon uttering this spell, the caster becomes able to regenerate any lost body part after 2 rounds, but only if the mutilator is a friend or ally. The caster also becomes very tasty and highly nutritious. Truelie The caster attempts to persuade at least 10 creatures a lie is true (no magic may be directly employed to achieve this end). If successful, reality is altered such that the lie becomes true for one round. For each additional 10 creatures convinced, reality is altered for another round. God's Eye (Cleric)Range: touch Duration: d4 rounds The eye of the cleric's god falls upon the target. The target must strictly obey the tenets of the god's faith and holy teachings at all times or suffer d8+(cleric level) damage per round of disobedience. Divine Lacuna(Cleric) Range: touch A single god chosen by the caster cannot see the target. The target cannot be directly helped, harmed, or in any way affected by any cleric spells cast by a devotee of that god's faith or otherwise relying on the power of that god. Unwanted Want Range: 20' Caster chooses two targets. Each loses the desires and goals they once had and has them replaced with those of the other. The victims are allowed a will/spell save each round but can only return to normal if both save in the same round. Warmask Caster carefully removes the face from a slain foe (this takes d4 minutes), and casts the spell. The face then will magically adhere to the face of a target and grant him/her the str, con, max hp and combat and damage bonuses of the dead foe for one round per level of the caster. The target or caster must have slain the foe. Wizard Husk Caster grows a second skin, slightly less flexible than the original (-2 dex). The caster cannot cast spells inside the skin but it can absorb up to the wizard's own hit points worth of magic damage. It ceases to absorb magic once reduced to 0 hp. The caster may remove the skin (takes 2 minutes) at any time and "squeeze" the spells cast from it, allowing the caster to use any spell absorbed by the skin. The skin cannot be re-worn once removed and will not absorb magic after removal, even if it has hit points remaining. Xamot's Reflecting Aura Caster automatically reflects the next magical attack made on him/her onto the original caster. This works once and then is gone. Eye of The Gallows God Area of effect: one creature Caster's player immediately knows target's ability scores, hit points, armor class, special attacks, special defenses and any spells prepared. Mark of Ignorance Range: touch Placing this mark on a creature makes it instantly forgettable. It cannot be recalled, referred to, or targeted directly in any way by any being that cannot sense the target creature by direct means (see, hear, smell, etc).
"One Thousand Hogs, Etc."
17 Comments -
One Thousand Hogs
A thousand hogs crawl up from beneath the earth. They know no master.
this is poetry. And level 3.
Gods eye level 3 maybe.
goblin wind...4, I would say 5 , but the short duration.
true lie level 6
Inverted hour sounds like level 9, because of the amount of a headache its gonna cause the g.m
June 18, 2012 at 4:07 AM
As minimums:
Goblin Wind level 3.
Inverted Hour whatever level will keep it out of PCs' spellbooks, because it would be a real pain to deal with if the players cast that every day.
Battle Oracle level 2.
One Thousand Hogs level 2.
Compulsive Repetition level 3.
Moebius Chamber level 4.
Ghastly Image level 2, depending on how you interpret 'stunned'.
Ridley's Transformation level 3, but it shouldn't be permanent.
Mothrok's Unusual Repast level 1.
God's Eye level 1 assuming the target knows what's going on.
Divine Lacuna level 6 or so if it's permanent.
Warmask level 1 assuming you can only do humanoid faces.
Wizard Husk level 5. Higher depending on how it works with area effect spells, spells higher than caster level and so on.
Xamot's Reflecting Aura level 5.
Eyes of the Gallows God level 2.
Mark of Ignorance level 4.
Questions:
Truelie - if you convince a bunch of ignorant savages that you're their god, can you use your omnipotent powers to do whatever you like?
Unwanted Wants - if you switch the desires of two mortal enemies will they kill themselves?
June 18, 2012 at 4:51 AM
Maybe I'm missing something but what is the point of Moebius Chamber? Not that it isn't cool but what do you do with it?
(Also, what happens if you cast it on the same room twice?)
June 18, 2012 at 6:11 AM
It's a fantastic way to create a trap.
If you cast it on the same room twice then you've got twice the stuff going on I suppose.
June 18, 2012 at 9:41 AM
You're right, Ridley's Transformation needs a duration.
Truelie-yes, for a few rounds.
unwanted want--yeah
June 18, 2012 at 9:43 AM
Aiming a bit higher than last post, though maybe that's not an improvement. Here goes:
Goblin Wind - Level 4 Comparing it to large illusions like Massmorph, Hallucinatory Terrain,etc, affecting many brains at once. Reverse would be the Bonobo Breeze - all in sight save or get busy with nearest living thing ;)
Inverted Hour - This seems on par with Limited Wish, so Level 7 minimum.
Battle Oracle - Sounds clerical, a bit stronger than Commune, so Level 6
One Thousand Hogs - Level 7 That's a lot of pork, so it must be more potent than Stone to Flesh.
Mockery of Faith - Level 2 To me, seems less powerful than Animate Dead and other 3rd level cleric spells.
Thask's Compulsive Repetition - Level 1 (no more than Charm Person)
Moebius Chamber - Like Permanent Illusion so Level 6
Ghastly Image - Depends how far back we go... today's kills or those of the past few years? Seems at least equal to Confusion, so Level 4
Ridley's Transformation - Duration permanent? Guessing Level 3
Mothrok's Unusual Repast - Weaker than Regenerate, so Level 6
Truelie - Level 5 Altering reality but only a little and briefly.
God's Eye - Short duration but powerful agent. Level 4
Divine Lacuna - Level 7 minimum. A cleric affecting a god seems too powerful to me.
Unwanted Want - Level 3 Potent charm but probably short-lived.
Warmask - Level 6 (Like Tenser's Transformation)
Wizard Husk - Hrm, does it affect AC? Better than Barkskin, so maybe Level 3
Xamot's Reflecting Aura - Level 3 (similar power to Dispel Magic)
Eye of the Gallows God - Level 4 at least (forcible extraction of sensitive info)
Mark of Ignorance - Level 2 (Comparable to a twist on Locate Object)
June 18, 2012 at 9:47 AM
I think we want to look at it more in terms of usefulness than "how much magic is getting used here" like One Thousand Hogs may require "a lot" of magic for its effect but it isn't usually as useful as Stone-to-Flesh whereas Truelie is almost Wish if rigged carefully.
June 18, 2012 at 9:51 AM
The problem with assigning spell levels is that even the "official" spells are all over the place, really. Used cleverly, Charm Person is way more useful than a lot of higher level spells. So I go at least partly by how much effort it takes to make the spell useful - instant gratification for high level spells, convoluted set-ups for low level spells.
June 18, 2012 at 10:21 AM
Unwanted Want should be at least a 4 then. Truelie needs some limits or else I can just use that one round of omnipotence to set myself up for life.
June 18, 2012 at 10:30 AM
Goblin Wind - 7th due to range and area of effect as it can affect a battlefield with thousands of combatants.
Inverted Hour - 9th level , it is more of a weirdly worded wish spell effect.
Battle Oracle - 4th level it seems a better combination of divination and augury
One Thousand Hogs - 7th level , as it can feed an army or kill one (wild boar have very nasty combat stats , they are far worse than wolves or hobgoblins)
Mockery of Faith - Spell interrupts spell casting of any divine spell ( verbal component is blown ) sounds like a curse so 3rd or 4th
Thask's Compulsive Repetition - basically a charm spell so first level
Moebius Chamber - 9th level , another weirdly worded wish spell
Ghastly Image - the save mod is by default an automatic failed save, so as writ a 5th , without the save mod it is a first level spell
Ridley's Transformation - it is a version of fire shield fundamentally so 4th
Mothrok's Unusual Repast - it is a weirdly worded regeneration spell , but for a mage and with a limited class of injury so I would call it a 5th.
Truelie - A weird limited wish spell with a reduced duration so 6th
God's Eye - as it compels a God 7th
Divine Lacuna - 7th
Unwanted Want - 3rd if it affects humanoids only 5th if it affects monsters
Warmask gruesome , but not a game breaker 3rd or 4th
Wizard Husk - doubles the mages hp and stores spells, so 5th level
Xamot's Reflecting Aura - 4th level unless it requires some riddiculous component
Eye of The Gallows God - depends on the range of the spell . if touch range first level , if 30" or less (combat range) 2nd , if line of sight 4th , if range is unlimited but requires a focus item such as hair from the target 3rd, if it is range 1 plane 6th or 7th , if completely unlimited 8th.
Mark of Ignorance if the subjects trying to recall get no save 6th if they do 3rd.
June 18, 2012 at 2:24 PM
see my reply to Folmac above.
Inverted hour is weaker than wish by a damn sight so it shouldn't be the same level
June 18, 2012 at 2:39 PM
And Husk does not double hp, only in regard to spells
June 18, 2012 at 2:40 PM
For Inverted Hour : Well I can't argue that it is weaker , but the effect is a cursed version of time stop linked to a permanency spell . My take on Wish , Limited Wish and Alter Reality is they represent a mage's ability to custom craft a spell that does anything rather than actually being identical to a Djinni or Efreeti wish , and the need to simply state it reflects how well the caster narrows their focus for the spell. Husk doesn't double the HP for all purposes true , but for a mage duel it certainly does, I understood this. These have just been my opinions on the magics involved and they represent a type I game view.
June 18, 2012 at 6:06 PM
@Zak:Magic in your campaign seems to not only depend less on power and more on utility, but also consider how the players react/interact with the magic and the RP value that adds. 1000 Hogs looks like serious fun and could be used in countless ways - to feed an army; to attack, distract, confuse, scatter or amuse an enemy; as a brideprice for the chieftain's daughter; to spoil the duchess' high society tea party. Obviously, 1000 Hogs wants to be used by PCs, and the higher the level, the less likely that is, so maybe Level 5 would be more logical than Level 7. Conversely, Battle Oracle sounds like an NPC spell cast by the Three Wyrd Sisters, so keeping it Level 6 is just fine.
If we deconstruct, four spell levels might suffice; 1 - for novice casters, 2 - for later, but not too late, 3 - spells PCs should get eventually but maybe only a few, 4 - stuff only encountered via scroll or NPC casters. That's where I'm at with my own game design, anyway.
@John: Yeah, "official" was never particularly well-balanced or organized :P
June 18, 2012 at 10:19 PM
I normally don't read the entirety of your longer posts in detail, but this one kept drawing me back in. I think you have done a great job in creating very "magical" spells that feel both epic and bizarre... Constantine/Books of Magic meeting Dunsany, perhaps. That kind of magic is always outlandish, weird and unbalanced, so I won't speak toward any kind of RPG balance issue, but I love these things and want to rip them off for my next game somehow.
June 19, 2012 at 1:40 PM
By the way , I like the spells , my criticisms are purely the result of trying to place them into my games framework ... I love hearing about your campaign , please don't stop sharing !
June 19, 2012 at 2:28 PM
One Thousand Hogs is going to be a 1st Level spell found in the skull of Emma's wizard's dead twin sister's skull because I think it's hilarious.
September 10, 2014 at 9:25 PM