I don't think that the objection that most Hillary supporters have is the one you mention: an African-American family living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The Hillary supporters I know believe she is more experienced and more qualified than Barrack, and has a better chance to win against McCain. They are not opposing Barrack, but neither are they enthused. The recent national polls showing McCain and Obama in a dead heat is doing nothing to buoy their mood. I don't know anyone who is planning to vote for McCain because they don't want to vote for Obama, and I wonder how many people there are who would really do that. I think those sentiments are coming from a few publicity-seeking people who are upset and want to make a point.
I was a proud Clinton supporter, but don't for a minute think voting for McCain makes any sense. I'm as shocked as anyone else is at that nonsense. Honestly it really disgusts me -- like you said, there's very little difference between the two candidates. I only supported Clinton over Obama because I had to pick one, and like Dr. Weiss mentions above I thought she was slightly more qualified because of experience.
I think either of the two would make a good President, and be infinitely better than McCain. So I seriously do NOT get this and I want to smack people.
I understand that some people had their hearts invested in her because she could have perhaps been the first woman President. I did too. But that disappointment (which has NOTHING to do with how qualified Obama is or isn't!) is not a reason to throw away the country's future, or to overlook an excellent candidate out of sheer spite.
I liked both front-running Democratic candidates from the start. I preferred Sen. Clinton until it became clear that she could not win the nomination. As well, I was unhappy with some of the behaviour and remarks coming out of the Clinton camp in the final days of the race.
I wanted Clinton in the White House, but now I want Sen. Obama there just as much. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I would vote for Sen. McCain. I don't understand any Clinton supporter who would do such a thing.
Dr Jillian, Those Hillary folks who are saying that may not be racist.
But coming from an African-American perspective, if you know that their isn't a millimeter of difference in the two candidates, observing in pervious election cycles when both candidates were white after a hard fought primary the party came together, what's different this time?
That leads us to conclude that it's racism and the Bradley Effect is at play here.
The reson he's not doinfgas well in those polls is because their sentiments are reflected in them and I stopped putting stock in those polls a long time ago during the New Hampshire primary.
If it not racism, I want a Hillary supporter who is that opposed to Barack Obama to give me a reason why they would vote against their political and economic interests to cast a ballot for John McCain who clearly is NOT going to look out for them.
AS an African-American, I see that as insanity. But then again, as I have observed over and over in my life, when it omes to racism and prejudice, you throw logic and reason out the window.
11:53 AM
Anonymous said...
I have no argument with the fact that there is plenty of racism in this country, and that a lot of the opposition to Obama is based on racism.
I think this who I am going to abstain from voting her vote McCain is plain ridiculousness on the part of Clinton supporters. Saying that Barack has to earn their votes means they want him to wine, dine, 69 them. Please. Let's get real. he may be a centrist incapable of real change but do they real want an anti-woman wingnut like McCain in office?
Last night, on CNN, a female African-American Hillary delegate was interviewed on air. She was in tears, saying that the Party had made a colossal mistake. She went on to say that she would be casting her ballot for Hillary in the roll call, and that this fall.....she halted, then said that she would not vote for McCain, but could not vote for Obama because of his lack of experience, and that for the first time in her life, she would not be voting (she was, I'd estimate, in her fifties or low sixties) this November.
I've heard others like this one who were not delegates. The problem is this: it has been many years since either party has fielded a candidate that inspired ordinary people to the point of creating a movement, rather than a mere candidacy. Finally, the Democratic Party found......two.......in the same year. The last candidates I've seen inspire followings like Hillary and Obama was Reagan, and the last Democrat was probably JFK.
Now, rationally, there's not much difference between the positions of Hillary and Obama, certainly nothing like the chasm that separates either from McCain. I expect most supporters of Hillary will recognize that and willingly, if not enthusiastically, vote for Obama this fall. As someone also pointed out last night, a tepid vote still counts.
I am very concerned about those, like the Hillary delegate on CNN, who won't see the light. The corporatists, oil companies, racists, health insurance companies, military contractors, and Religious Reich will be pulling out the stops for McCain. Every vote is needed.
If you're reading this, and you're not voting for Obama because Hillary lost, be advised: I DO NOT INTEND TO LIVE UNDER 8 MORE YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE. No way. No how. Get over it Get yer ass to the polls in November and vote. If Obama does a good job, you can take credit; if not, you can say you told us so, but for God's sake, electing McCain, after 8 years of the incompetent dictator Bush, could be the death knell of the US as an economic power, and would probably cause a depression.
I wonder how much of the opposition to Barack's "inexperience" is rooted in the generational shock of realizing that a 47 year old will be president.
People older than 47 may be forcefully confronted with the issue of what they have achieved in life and how it compares to Obama's. They may be jealous that he has achieved so much, especially for those with lingering feelings of racial entitlement. They may be resentful that they didn't have better opportunities, which is certainly true for the women of Hillary's generation and older. They may find themselves unexpectedly reflecting on their future death, which many find unsettling.
I remember, 20 years ago, my father being uneasy about the candidacy of Gary Hart, citing his inexperience and that "he's my age!" Now, I am the same age as Barack Obama and it has made me reflect on what I haven't accomplished in life. Such reflection may be more difficult for those who are older and suddenly find themselves facing the passing of the torch.
Why? Because many women wanted a woman as badly as many African-Americans wanted an African-American. The great collide of the main American minorities.
Funny, I thought and voted in 1988 as if Jesse were the best candidate to dfeat Bush. He was and I was pissed but voted for Dukakis anyhow,
This year, I'm sorely disappointed that Hillary wasn't nominated. Why, because I so wanted to vote for a woman as President before I die.
But, there is no way in Hell I would ever vote for John McCain or any of the other Republican challengers that were in the primaries, no matter who they would pick as a running-mate, male, female, horse-fly.
Look it, folks, time to woman-up and elect who ya know, abslutely is the only choice for some kinda positive change.
Hillary lost out. It hurt. But John McCain for 8 years would hurt a damned-sight more. Let's just all be very real about that.
And yes, I am southern and white and Barack is THE Choice, just like Hillary and Bill have both said and will hopefully prove with their influence and real support for the man.
You wrote: If that happens, the resulting insurrections will make the riots in the wake of the King assassination 40 years ago look like church picnics.
I'm not interested in voting for someone because we are threatened of riots. I can only be convinced by logic, rusumes and love of America.... who cares about race or sex. Give me a break.
If you're angry that's one thing.. but don't threaten riots because that opens up a can of worms for everyone, and you don't live in a bubble.
You wrote: If that happens, the resulting insurrections will make the riots in the wake of the King assassination 40 years ago look like church picnics.
And as usual, conservatives try to take a snippet of a comment and twist it beyond all recognition.
I made that comment in reference to what would happen if Barack (heaven forbid) was assassinated.
Reading is fundamental.
4:50 AM
[Image]I watched Sen Clinton's convention speech when I arrived home from work last night. She nailed it and I loved it.
As you long time TransGriot readers know, I'm a huge Obama supporter. I not only voted for him when I got my chance to cast my ballot during the Kentucky primary last May, he's been my candidate since January 1 of this year.
I was at one point in 2007 an enthusiastic Hillary supporter but I had reservations about whether she'd be able to win knowing what the Right Wing Noise Machine is capable of. I was also cognizant of the fact they were salivating at the prospect of attacking Hillary in a fall election campaign if she became the Democratic nominee. The Evil Equal Sign Empire's early endorsement of Sen. Clinton also sent me scrambling to find a transgender-friendly candidate, and I found that in the person of Sen. Obama when he announced his candidacy for the office.
But as an Obama supporter I keep hearing the MSM interview Hillary supporter after Hillary supporter who say they won't vote for him or arrogantly state he needs to come to them to get their vote. They keep citing this mysterious list of grievances which we never hear them articulate as to why they're mad or we only hear in the MSM one side of the story.
I guess since Hillary's supporters are mostly 'working class' white people their words and hurt feelings matter more to the MSM than the hurt feelings of Obama supporters. I rarely see or hear Obama supporters interviewed for their side of the story or media outlets ask this question:
Why are Obama supporters pissed at the Hillary Clinton ones?
Here's why.
The ironic thing about this whole family feud is that there isn't a millimeter's amount of difference in his or Sen. Clinton's positions on the issues I care about. I honestly wouldn't have had a problem if the election results had been flipped. Yeah, I would have been upset because yes, I would dearly like to see someone of my ethnic background before I leave this planet holding the highest political office in the land.
[Image]But you can bet that I wouldn't have been acting as nekulturny as some of the Hillary supporters have been. My attitude would've been (and still is) all I care about is that we have a Democrat moving into the White House on January 20, 2009.
I'm supporting Sen. Obama because he's the person I believe is best qualified to be president, but I freely admit for a few months mine was the minority opinion in my immediate family. Then came the South Carolina primary and the infamous remarks of Bill Clinton in that campaign comparing him to the man most white males love to hate, Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr.
My sister was so turned off she began supporting Obama that day. For my mother, being the historian she is, she dearly wanted to see a woman become president and it took her a little longer to become an Obama supporter.
But as the race baiting continued from the Clinton camp and surrogates like Geraldine Ferraro and others kept making insensitive remarks about Sen. Obama, that incensed the African-American community to the point that by the time the Texas primary happened, Mom was supporting Obama as well.
What has really stoked much of the anger between the two sides is the incessant comments from some Hillary supporters saying that if Obama won, they'd vote for McCain.
[Image]Now, as a loyal yellow dog Democrat, that is idiotic heresy to me. As part of the group that has been the most loyal constituency to this party and having to swallow a bitter 1988 loss by Jesse Jackson Sr. 'for the good of the party' in favor of Michael Dukakis, I and many African-American Democrats who poured our hearts and souls into getting Jackson the nomination were just as disappointed as Hillary supporters are today.
I wasn't exactly enthused about Dukakis, but I did what many African-American Democrats did that year. We sucked it up, kept our grousing to ourselves and voted for the nominee of our party.
Now that the script has been flipped, we African-Americans expect you to do the same for us that we did for you 20 years ago and for every Democratic presidential nominee since 1964.
[Image]If you are that obtuse (or racist) to vote against your own political or economic interests because it would result in an African-American family living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue or you think that if Obama loses it will grease the skids for Hillary in 2012, better rethink that strategy.
If this is a close election, there's no electronic machine chicanery and it's proven that Hillary Democrats staying home or crossing over cost us the White House, don't think Hillary will be off the hook. She will get the blame for it and the fallout will be vicious.
Are you really willing to suffer through another four years of GOP misrule just because you're pissed the primary didn't go your way?
Many African-Americans are deathly afraid that there are enough vindictive short sighted Hillary supporters out there who would not only say yes to that question, but the unhinged elements out there will resort to using bullets to accomplish what they couldn't at the ballot box. If that happens, the resulting insurrections will make the riots in the wake of the King assassination 40 years ago look like church picnics.
And if you really are that selfish, shortsighted, and politically obtuse to fail to see just how much danger this republic and our civil liberties are in if we don't have a President Obama being sworn in on January 20, then I fear that the prediction that W.E.B. DuBois made at the beginning of the 20th century will begin to come true in the 21st.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance or ignorance will destroy the United States.
In the words of another King, Can't we all just get along?
For the good of the party and the country I'm willing to try, but the Hillary folks are gonna have to meet us halfway.
posted by Monica Roberts at 4:00 AM on Aug 27, 2008
"Anyone Asked Obama Supporters Why We're Pissed At Hillary?"
11 Comments -
I don't think that the objection that most Hillary supporters have is the one you mention: an African-American family living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. The Hillary supporters I know believe she is more experienced and more qualified than Barrack, and has a better chance to win against McCain. They are not opposing Barrack, but neither are they enthused. The recent national polls showing McCain and Obama in a dead heat is doing nothing to buoy their mood. I don't know anyone who is planning to vote for McCain because they don't want to vote for Obama, and I wonder how many people there are who would really do that. I think those sentiments are coming from a few publicity-seeking people who are upset and want to make a point.
7:44 AM
I was a proud Clinton supporter, but don't for a minute think voting for McCain makes any sense. I'm as shocked as anyone else is at that nonsense. Honestly it really disgusts me -- like you said, there's very little difference between the two candidates. I only supported Clinton over Obama because I had to pick one, and like Dr. Weiss mentions above I thought she was slightly more qualified because of experience.
I think either of the two would make a good President, and be infinitely better than McCain. So I seriously do NOT get this and I want to smack people.
I understand that some people had their hearts invested in her because she could have perhaps been the first woman President. I did too. But that disappointment (which has NOTHING to do with how qualified Obama is or isn't!) is not a reason to throw away the country's future, or to overlook an excellent candidate out of sheer spite.
9:34 AM
I liked both front-running Democratic candidates from the start. I preferred Sen. Clinton until it became clear that she could not win the nomination. As well, I was unhappy with some of the behaviour and remarks coming out of the Clinton camp in the final days of the race.
I wanted Clinton in the White House, but now I want Sen. Obama there just as much. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I would vote for Sen. McCain. I don't understand any Clinton supporter who would do such a thing.
Go Barack!
11:36 AM
Dr Jillian,
Those Hillary folks who are saying that may not be racist.
But coming from an African-American perspective, if you know that their isn't a millimeter of difference in the two candidates, observing in pervious election cycles when both candidates were white after a hard fought primary the party came together, what's different this time?
That leads us to conclude that it's racism and the Bradley Effect is at play here.
The reson he's not doinfgas well in those polls is because their sentiments are reflected in them and I stopped putting stock in those polls a long time ago during the New Hampshire primary.
If it not racism, I want a Hillary supporter who is that opposed to Barack Obama to give me a reason why they would vote against their political and economic interests to cast a ballot for John McCain who clearly is NOT going to look out for them.
AS an African-American, I see that as insanity. But then again, as I have observed over and over in my life, when it omes to racism and prejudice, you throw logic and reason out the window.
11:53 AM
I have no argument with the fact that there is plenty of racism in this country, and that a lot of the opposition to Obama is based on racism.
12:14 PM
I think this who I am going to abstain from voting her vote McCain is plain ridiculousness on the part of Clinton supporters. Saying that Barack has to earn their votes means they want him to wine, dine, 69 them. Please. Let's get real. he may be a centrist incapable of real change but do they real want an anti-woman wingnut like McCain in office?
1:14 PM
Last night, on CNN, a female African-American Hillary delegate was interviewed on air. She was in tears, saying that the Party had made a colossal mistake. She went on to say that she would be casting her ballot for Hillary in the roll call, and that this fall.....she halted, then said that she would not vote for McCain, but could not vote for Obama because of his lack of experience, and that for the first time in her life, she would not be voting (she was, I'd estimate, in her fifties or low sixties) this November.
I've heard others like this one who were not delegates. The problem is this: it has been many years since either party has fielded a candidate that inspired ordinary people to the point of creating a movement, rather than a mere candidacy. Finally, the Democratic Party found......two.......in the same year. The last candidates I've seen inspire followings like Hillary and Obama was Reagan, and the last Democrat was probably JFK.
Now, rationally, there's not much difference between the positions of Hillary and Obama, certainly nothing like the chasm that separates either from McCain. I expect most supporters of Hillary will recognize that and willingly, if not enthusiastically, vote for Obama this fall. As someone also pointed out last night, a tepid vote still counts.
I am very concerned about those, like the Hillary delegate on CNN, who won't see the light. The corporatists, oil companies, racists, health insurance companies, military contractors, and Religious Reich will be pulling out the stops for McCain. Every vote is needed.
If you're reading this, and you're not voting for Obama because Hillary lost, be advised: I DO NOT INTEND TO LIVE UNDER 8 MORE YEARS OF REPUBLICAN RULE. No way. No how. Get over it
Get yer ass to the polls in November and vote. If Obama does a good job, you can take credit; if not, you can say you told us so, but for God's sake, electing McCain, after 8 years of the incompetent dictator Bush, could be the death knell of the US as an economic power, and would probably cause a depression.
1:28 PM
I wonder how much of the opposition to Barack's "inexperience" is rooted in the generational shock of realizing that a 47 year old will be president.
People older than 47 may be forcefully confronted with the issue of what they have achieved in life and how it compares to Obama's. They may be jealous that he has achieved so much, especially for those with lingering feelings of racial entitlement. They may be resentful that they didn't have better opportunities, which is certainly true for the women of Hillary's generation and older. They may find themselves unexpectedly reflecting on their future death, which many find unsettling.
I remember, 20 years ago, my father being uneasy about the candidacy of Gary Hart, citing his inexperience and that "he's my age!" Now, I am the same age as Barack Obama and it has made me reflect on what I haven't accomplished in life. Such reflection may be more difficult for those who are older and suddenly find themselves facing the passing of the torch.
1:52 PM
Why? Because many women wanted a woman as badly as many African-Americans wanted an African-American. The great collide of the main American minorities.
Funny, I thought and voted in 1988 as if Jesse were the best candidate to dfeat Bush. He was and I was pissed but voted for Dukakis anyhow,
This year, I'm sorely disappointed that Hillary wasn't nominated. Why, because I so wanted to vote for a woman as President before I die.
But, there is no way in Hell I would ever vote for John McCain or any of the other Republican challengers that were in the primaries, no matter who they would pick as a running-mate, male, female, horse-fly.
Look it, folks, time to woman-up and elect who ya know, abslutely is the only choice for some kinda positive change.
Hillary lost out. It hurt. But John McCain for 8 years would hurt a damned-sight more. Let's just all be very real about that.
And yes, I am southern and white and Barack is THE Choice, just like Hillary and Bill have both said and will hopefully prove with their influence and real support for the man.
10:32 PM
You wrote: If that happens, the resulting insurrections will make the riots in the wake of the King assassination 40 years ago look like church picnics.
I'm not interested in voting for someone because we are threatened of riots. I can only be convinced by logic, rusumes and love of America.... who cares about race or sex. Give me a break.
If you're angry that's one thing.. but don't threaten riots because that opens up a can of worms for everyone, and you don't live in a bubble.
10:02 PM
You wrote: If that happens, the resulting insurrections will make the riots in the wake of the King assassination 40 years ago look like church picnics.
And as usual, conservatives try to take a snippet of a comment and twist it beyond all recognition.
I made that comment in reference to what would happen if Barack (heaven forbid) was assassinated.
Reading is fundamental.
4:50 AM