Hi Pastorius . He forgot to mention the following quotes: Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Abu Dawud (41:4832) - The Messenger of Allah [said] "Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious."
Ishaq 262 - "Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur'an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse"
On the whole, Islam is very clear in teaching that there is no equality between believers and unbelievers, and hence no basis for a relationship of peers. Those who do not profess Muhammad are intended to exist in subjugation to those who do, then spend eternity in Hell. This does not preclude Muslims from acting friendly toward others, of course, but this does not constitute friendship as it is generally understood in the modern world.
Watch out for the 'Abrahamic Faiths'contrick, see Tactic 8 at http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/twelve-tactics-of-taqiyya.html
Thursday, December 16, 2010 3:19:00 pm
trencherbone said...
...also, interfaith dialogue with Islam is a waste of time - Islam shares no common ground with other religions.
There is no reason or morality in Islam, and no shared premises that could act as a foundation for discusion.
From today's Jihad Watch http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/12/dueling-theocrats.html
"Nor is there the concept of Natural Law --that ethical code that any rational person, with faith or without, should be able to discern using reason alone. It is this code of ethics alone that religious believers can and should fight for in the public square. Islam, of course, rejects reason as a reliable source of ethics; all its dictates come from infallible Revelation, and they all make the same claim to authority.
Polygamy, marriage laws (including Muhammad's "excellent example" of marrying a nine-year-old), the subjugation of dhimmis--these are subjects of exegesis for Islamic scholars, not of dispute among philosophers. Because they do not believe in Natural Law, it is pretty much impossible to dispute with honest Muslims about politics or human rights; we literally share with them no premises.
As Robert Spencer pointed out in his debate with Peter Kreeft, whenever Muslims make generalized ethical statements that sound like they offer common ground, they almost always mean (whether or not they say), "for Muslims." Thus, "We believe in freedom of religion..." (for Muslims). We believe in social equality..." (for Muslims). Since all ethical discourse comes from Revelation, not reason, all rights pertain to believers. Everyone else exists merely upon sufferance."
If Hooper really wants to bring Christians and Muslims together, why doesn't he condemn the evil done in the name of his religion? Why doesn't he come out and say that its not acceptable to have Muslim countries were people can be put to death for apostasy? Why doesn't he condemn the out right bigotry of so many of his fellow Muslims. He does nothing to make me doubt the idea that his organization is nothing more than a terrorist supporting, Hamas front group.
Wasn't it one of CAIR's leaders who said that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth" Hooper of course would deny that, but it has been documented.
Oh yeah, and we are supposed to believe that CAIR is a civil rights organization.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:10:00 pm
cjk said...
I think God Almighty has a great sense of humor and irony. The same one who had his lawgiver Moses brought up, educated, and fed by the house of Pharaoh, that same corrupt house which Moses was destined to destroy.
He now allows Satan to be honored and worshiped as Allah, but the Devil still has to have his name written in the form of that low crawling snake that he really is.
I don't think Almighty God would allow his Holy Name to be expressed in the likeness of a snake!
Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:56:00 pm
cjk said...
I always find it interesting how the Mohammedans add Ismail's name to the Patriarchs when Almighty God himself seemed to not even recognize him as Abraham's son!!!
When God beckons Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, notice he tell Abraham to 'take your son, your ONLY son' My emphasis.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:20:00 pm
revereridesagain said...
Any Christian clergy who might be pointing out to their "flocks" that the Muslims believe their Jesus will come back to destroy Christianity and help to establish the universal Caliphate? No? That too un-PC? Too raaaaaaaaist? Too Islamophobic? And besides, as long as we close our eyes and chant "give peace a chance" everything will turn out all hunkey-dorey and little fluffy bunnies anyway?
They'd denounce people like me from their damned pulpits before they'd ever say a negative word about Islam. Fuck 'em.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:55:00 pm
revereridesagain said...
cjk, I know I'm going to get slammed for saying this, but I AM SICK AND EFFING TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT "GOD ALLMIGHTY'S" ALLEGEDLY GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR AND IRONY.
GROW THE FUCKING HELL UP.
Joking about your great big all-knowing, all-powerful universe-sized mega-bully of a god chuckling at what fools we mortals be while he "allows Satan to be honored and worshipped as Allah" and hah-hah It Will All Turn Out Allright According to God's Will In the End When Jesus Comes Down All Twinkle-Toes on Clouds of Glory and Sorts Things Out is one of the reasons I'm just one major pain-in-the-ass pissed off atheist lately.
We are facing ruin and tyranny and innocent people are dying every day because of one gang of fanatical religious nuts. You think your imaginary god gets a chuckle out of that? You're too busy anthropomorphizing snakes into demons to realize how damned sick that is.
RRA, They'd denounce people like me from their damned pulpits before they'd ever say a negative word about Islam.
That's true for most churches.
Not all.
I know a minister who does denounce Islam from the pulpit. He lives with the constant cloud of death threats over his head -- as does the entire church, for that matter.
Islamophilia, syncretism -- those are causes for the church's love affair with Islam. But don't discount fear as well.
Friday, December 17, 2010 11:19:00 am
This is an editorial in the Salem News written by Ibrahim Hooper, national director of CAIR.
As you read the editorial, remember that Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind.
In fact, Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the cross at all. Instead, they believe Judas died on the cross in Jesus' place.
Muslims believe the Bible has it wrong when it says that Jesus died on the Cross.
Muslims believe the Bible has it wrong when it says that Jesus was the Christ, the only begotten Son of the Living God, come to die as a sacrifice for the sins of mankind.
So, it is completely untrue to say Muslims believe in Jesus, as they do not believe in the same Jesus as Christians do. It would be more accurate to say, Muslims believe in a man named Jesus.
From Salem New: Love for Jesus Can Bring Christians, Muslims Together We have more in common than we think. [Image]The Prophet Muhammad himself sought to erase any distinctions between the message he taught and that taught by Jesus.(WASHINGTON D.C.) - "Behold! The angels said: 'O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him. His name will be Jesus Christ, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and the Hereafter and in (the company of) those nearest to God.'" Before searching for this quote in the New Testament, you might first ask your Muslim co-worker, friend or neighbor for a copy of the Quran, Islam's revealed text. The quote is from verse 45 of chapter 3 in the Quran. It is well known, particularly in this holiday season, that Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. What is less well understood is that Muslims also love and revere Jesus as one of God's greatest messengers to mankind. Other verses in the Quran, regarded by Muslims as the direct word of God, state that Jesus was strengthened with the "Holy Spirit" (2:87) and is a "sign for the whole world." (21:91) His virgin birth was confirmed when Mary is quoted as asking: "How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?" (3:47)The Quran shows Jesus speaking from the cradle and, with God's permission, curing lepers and the blind. (5:110) God also states in the Quran: "We gave (Jesus) the Gospel (Injeel) and put compassion and mercy into the hearts of his followers." (57:27)[Image]As forces of hate in this country and worldwide try to pull Muslims and Christians apart, we are in desperate need of a unifying force that can bridge the widening gap of interfaith misunderstanding and mistrust. That force could be the message of love, peace and forgiveness taught by Jesus and accepted by followers of both faiths. Christians and Muslims would do well to consider another verse in the Quran reaffirming God's eternal message of spiritual unity: "Say ye: 'We believe in God and the revelation given to us and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and it is unto Him that we surrender ourselves.'" (2:136) The Prophet Muhammad himself sought to erase any distinctions between the message he taught and that taught by Jesus, who he called God's "spirit and word." Prophet Muhammad said: "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one." When Muslims mention the Prophet Muhammad, they always add the phrase "peace be upon him." Christians may be surprised to learn that the same phrase always follows a Muslim's mention of Jesus or that we believe Jesus will return to earth in the last days before the final judgment. Disrespect toward Jesus, as we have seen all too often in our society, is very offensive to Muslims. Unfortunately, violent events and hate-filled rhetoric around the world provide ample opportunity for promoting religious hostility. And yes, Muslims and Christians do have some differing perspectives on Jesus' life and teachings. But his spiritual legacy offers an alternative opportunity for people of faith to recognize their shared religious heritage. America's Muslim community stands ready to honor that legacy by building bridges of interfaith understanding and challenging those who would divide our nation along religious or ethnic lines. We have more in common than we think.
14 Comments
Close this window Jump to comment formWhat if rather than "interfaith understanding" I prefer the truth?
Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the unbelievers until they proclaim that there is no deity worthy of worship but Allah."
Jesus said, "...and you shall love your neighbor as you love yourself." and "...even before Abraham, I AM."
Muhammad said that Allah was not begotten and has begotten none to him.
Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." and accepted worship as the Son of G-d.
It appears that we have very little in common, Mr. Hooper's attempt at Taqqiya notwithstanding.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:14:00 pm
Hi Pastorius .
He forgot to mention the following quotes: Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."
Abu Dawud (41:4832) - The Messenger of Allah [said] "Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious."
Ishaq 262 - "Some Muslims remained friends with the Jews, so Allah sent down a Qur'an forbidding them to take Jews as friends. From their mouths hatred has already shown itself and what they conceal is worse"
On the whole, Islam is very clear in teaching that there is no equality between believers and unbelievers, and hence no basis for a relationship of peers. Those who do not profess Muhammad are intended to exist in subjugation to those who do, then spend eternity in Hell. This does not preclude Muslims from acting friendly toward others, of course, but this does not constitute friendship as it is generally understood in the modern world.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/009-friends-with-christians-jews.htm
Thursday, December 16, 2010 2:45:00 pm
Watch out for the 'Abrahamic Faiths'contrick, see Tactic 8 at http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/twelve-tactics-of-taqiyya.html
Thursday, December 16, 2010 3:19:00 pm
...also, interfaith dialogue with Islam is a waste of time - Islam shares no common ground with other religions.
There is no reason or morality in Islam, and no shared premises that could act as a foundation for discusion.
From today's Jihad Watch http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/12/dueling-theocrats.html
"Nor is there the concept of Natural Law --that ethical code that any rational person, with faith or without, should be able to discern using reason alone. It is this code of ethics alone that religious believers can and should fight for in the public square. Islam, of course, rejects reason as a reliable source of ethics; all its dictates come from infallible Revelation, and they all make the same claim to authority.
Polygamy, marriage laws (including Muhammad's "excellent example" of marrying a nine-year-old), the subjugation of dhimmis--these are subjects of exegesis for Islamic scholars, not of dispute among philosophers. Because they do not believe in Natural Law, it is pretty much impossible to dispute with honest Muslims about politics or human rights; we literally share with them no premises.
As Robert Spencer pointed out in his debate with Peter Kreeft, whenever Muslims make generalized ethical statements that sound like they offer common ground, they almost always mean (whether or not they say), "for Muslims." Thus, "We believe in freedom of religion..." (for Muslims). We believe in social equality..." (for Muslims). Since all ethical discourse comes from Revelation, not reason, all rights pertain to believers. Everyone else exists merely upon sufferance."
Thursday, December 16, 2010 3:25:00 pm
This comment has been removed by the author.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:51:00 pm
If Hooper really wants to bring Christians and Muslims together, why doesn't he condemn the evil done in the name of his religion? Why doesn't he come out and say that its not acceptable to have Muslim countries were people can be put to death for apostasy? Why doesn't he condemn the out right bigotry of so many of his fellow Muslims. He does nothing to make me doubt the idea that his organization is nothing more than a terrorist supporting, Hamas front group.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 4:53:00 pm
The rest of the story...
And the ignorant read this extended taqiyya and said to themselves, "See? Islam is wonderful because it embraces Christianity."
And more and more fools are deceived and lulled into submission.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 6:17:00 pm
Pastorius,
Wasn't it one of CAIR's leaders who said that "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth" Hooper of course would deny that, but it has been documented.
American Muslim Leader urges faithful to spread Islam's message
Oh yeah, and we are supposed to believe that CAIR is a civil rights organization.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:10:00 pm
I think God Almighty has a great sense of humor and irony. The same one who had his lawgiver Moses brought up, educated, and fed by the house of Pharaoh, that same corrupt house which Moses was destined to destroy.
He now allows Satan to be honored and worshiped as Allah, but the Devil still has to have his name written in the form of that low crawling snake that he really is.
I don't think Almighty God would allow his Holy Name to be expressed in the likeness of a snake!
Thursday, December 16, 2010 9:56:00 pm
I always find it interesting how the Mohammedans add Ismail's name to the Patriarchs when Almighty God himself seemed to not even recognize him as Abraham's son!!!
When God beckons Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, notice he tell Abraham to 'take your son, your ONLY son' My emphasis.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:20:00 pm
Any Christian clergy who might be pointing out to their "flocks" that the Muslims believe their Jesus will come back to destroy Christianity and help to establish the universal Caliphate? No? That too un-PC? Too raaaaaaaaist? Too Islamophobic? And besides, as long as we close our eyes and chant "give peace a chance" everything will turn out all hunkey-dorey and little fluffy bunnies anyway?
They'd denounce people like me from their damned pulpits before they'd ever say a negative word about Islam. Fuck 'em.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 10:55:00 pm
cjk, I know I'm going to get slammed for saying this, but I AM SICK AND EFFING TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT "GOD ALLMIGHTY'S" ALLEGEDLY GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR AND IRONY.
GROW THE FUCKING HELL UP.
Joking about your great big all-knowing, all-powerful universe-sized mega-bully of a god chuckling at what fools we mortals be while he "allows Satan to be honored and worshipped as Allah" and hah-hah It Will All Turn Out Allright According to God's Will In the End When Jesus Comes Down All Twinkle-Toes on Clouds of Glory and Sorts Things Out is one of the reasons I'm just one major pain-in-the-ass pissed off atheist lately.
We are facing ruin and tyranny and innocent people are dying every day because of one gang of fanatical religious nuts. You think your imaginary god gets a chuckle out of that? You're too busy anthropomorphizing snakes into demons to realize how damned sick that is.
Thursday, December 16, 2010 11:09:00 pm
RRA, LOL, TOUGH.
Friday, December 17, 2010 4:20:00 am
RRA,
They'd denounce people like me from their damned pulpits before they'd ever say a negative word about Islam.
That's true for most churches.
Not all.
I know a minister who does denounce Islam from the pulpit. He lives with the constant cloud of death threats over his head -- as does the entire church, for that matter.
Islamophilia, syncretism -- those are causes for the church's love affair with Islam. But don't discount fear as well.
Friday, December 17, 2010 11:19:00 am